Mueller’s Disgraceful Performance

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Competing Clown Shows On Capitol Hill

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Steve Moore Talks Trumpnomics, Dismisses #NeverTrump

On this edition of ATC, Heritage Foundation Senior Economist Steve Moore, who also serves as an economic policy adviser to the Trump campaign, sat down with Dan Proft to discuss the Trump economic policy which he believes will be central to a Trump victory.

Moore also explains his criticism of his conservative colleagues in the #NeverTrump camp.

And Moore discusses his new book about U.S. energy policy, "Fueling Freedom".

View full transcript

Dan Proft: Joining me on this edition of Against the Current, coming to you live from the Skyline Club, atop the Old Republic Building in Downtown Chicago is chief economist of the Heritage Foundation, New Trier grad, former Wall Street Journal editorial board. Steve Moore: Bears middle linebacker. Dan Proft: Bears middle linebacker from the Butkus era. He is Steve Moore. Steve, thanks so much for joining us again. Appreciate it. Steve Moore: Hi, Dan. Good to be with you. Dan Proft: The book, “Fueling Freedom”. Got to get the book promo right at the top. Steve Moore: Got to get the book! Dan Proft: Got to get the book and got to get the book promo. “Fueling Freedom”, the title indicates it’s about the energy sector. Steve Moore: So the subtitle is “Exposing the Mad War on Energy”, and it’s basically how the left is trying to shut down our energy in this country; that’s one theme, and the other theme is, what if we get this right? And we really promote our American energy – coal, oil, gas, which we have more of than any other country in the world. We can be the energy dominant country in the world within five or six years, and we can be the new Saudi Arabia. That has huge implications for our economy and huge implications for national security as well. So it’s a win-win, and we ought to be doing it. But the radical green left is doing everything they can to stop it. Dan Proft: And they also have enlisted the help of a dozen state attorneys general to help them prosecute anybody who doesn’t believe in Al Gore’s Inconvenient Truth propaganda, as well as those who fund organizations that promote energy alternatives, promote – as you say – kind of a fueling freedom agenda. That’s a bit of a frightening time. It’s not as similar to the IRS targeting people for their political and religious beliefs. Now you’ve got state attorneys general doing the same thing with respect to your environmental beliefs. Steve Moore: Yes, and I actually would say that the most dangerous movement in America today is the Green Movement. There’s an old saying, “The greens are the new reds”, and that’s true. The Green Movement is anti-industrialization, anti-freedom, anti-liberty, it’s for much more massive government control of our lives. How can you control people’s lives more than controlling their energy, because everything we have, that cigar you’re smoking, your drink, sure, I’m sitting in that camera, everything is a derivable of cheap and affordable energy. And so, if you want to shut down a place, go after energy. There’s a great photo – you’ve probably seen this. Dan Proft: North Korea? Steve Moore: The North Korea thought. It tells you everything, doesn’t it? North Korea is totally dark at night; South Korea is lid up at night. What’s the difference. Dan Proft: Well, you do have Kim Jong-un’s reading lamp. Steve Moore: Yeah, his palace is a light. That’s the only little dot of light I’m thinking of. But this is a really dangerous situation. I do think if we were to go green, all in – I mean, the Sierra Club, everybody who was giving money to the Sierra Club, shame on you. They have this new campaign to go 100% green energy. Keep it on the ground, no oil, no gas, no coal. Well, they just took away 75% of our power. Where are we going to get the rest? The answer is we’re going to have rolling brownouts and blackouts, and then these kids on college campuses, at the University of Chicago or Northwestern or DePaul, we think it’s so cool to go green, they’re not going to be so happy when they can’t charge up their iPods or their iPads and get their Netflix on TV. Dan Proft: But as hard left as the Sierra Club is, at least they’re open to nuclear power. You have some, like the Bernie Sanders environmental justice crowd, that essentially want us to fuel the energy needs of this country on switchgrass. Steve Moore: That’s true, and that’s a pretty dangerous proposition. I just tell people and they’re surprised about this, that if you look at all the energy consumption in America, where it comes from, of all the energy we consume, to be charitable, maybe 4, maybe 5% of it comes from wind and solar power and sawgrass. The rest of it is oil, gas, coal, nuclear power, some comes from hydro power, but they’re against anything that works. And if we try to go totally green, now we really would have major problems. And this is happening, by the way, in some of the European countries that have gone all in on green. It’s interesting, I don’t know if you’ve been following it, Dan, but Germany is about 10 years ahead of us on the green movement. They’re dramatically moving away from it. They finally concluded this stuff doesn’t work, it’s way too expensive to compete in global markets, so their manufacturers can’t compete now because they’re making things with much more expensive energy than we are. Dan Proft: It seems like we should look at everything Europe has done 10 years ahead of us, with respect to immigration policy, environmental policy, and just say, “Don’t do that”. This is why freedom lovers in the West stay in places like Britain. Dan Hannon. Steve Moore: Want to see socialism? Go to Athens, Greece, or Venezuela. Dan Proft: Or Caracas, right. Vin Scully recently opined on socialism – I don’t know if you caught it, I know you’re a big baseball fan - Vin Scully, as an aside, as he’s broadcasting the Dodgers game, talked about socialism and look what’s happening in Venezuela, and oh, by the way, the richest person in Venezuela, Hugo Chávez’s daughter. Steve Moore: I’m sure that got a good reception in Los Angeles. Dan Proft: I’m sure you do. Steve Moore: No, but he’s absolutely right. This brings me back to the energy thing. What’s interesting is, what is the left’s main anthem right now? Stopping income inequality; well, if you want to increase income inequality, there’s no better way to do that than to shut down cheap and affordable energy, because that means [Wellin 00:05:36] will not be able to afford energy, the Tom Steyers of the world. Dan Proft: Right, the billionaire. Steve Moore: Means the one who’s popular to so many of these democratic causes, do you think he cares if his utility bill doubles every month? No. Dan Proft: After making all his money in false effuse. Steve Moore: Of course, and now he’s making all his money in green energy. That’s the other part of the story that’s not well told, is that a lot of these billionaire investors who were funding the Democratic Party, they have invested financial interest in solar power, wind power, because they’ve invested in those. Dan Proft: And being subsidized by their friends at the government, ala Terry McAuliffe, as well as Steyers. Steve Moore: 150 billion dollars we spend at the federal level in the last 10 years; under Bush it was terrible on numeracy, and Obama, who’s even worse. Subsidizing windmills and green solar power, we’ve got 3 or 4% of our electricity from that. So it’s been a huge waste of money. What I enforce is to level playing field. Whatever works, let’s do it. If coal works… what’s happening with coal is really dastardly. I live in Virginia where we have coal towns that have been shut down because of Obama’s environmental rules. 3rd and 4th generation coal miners, in those towns, you go in them today and they’re deserted. It’s just people on unemployment lines, or people on meth, and it’s disgraceful. Dan Proft: Well, it’s the same thing here in southern Illinois. You go to Coal Country in southern Illinois, Franklin County. We’ve got more coal here in terms of inert energy than Saudi Arabia has oil. Steve Moore: Right. Dan Proft: But it’s being decimated by. Steve Moore: Good thing that you’ve got all these state legislators who are so pro-coal. Dan Proft: Well, frankly, the struggle here is not just similar to the struggle in some of these Socialist catastrophes like Venezuela, kind of like order of magnitude, but it’s the same idea. The rich are insulated from terrible public policy and the people who bear the brunt are middle income people, or, to some extent, lower income people who face these regressive policies. Steve Moore: I always tell the story that when I went to Africa a few years ago and went to some of these remove villages, thought they were great people, the nicest people I’ve ever met in my life, but they’re still living like it’s the 16th or 17th century. What they don’t have is energy. They don’t have reliable electricity. So our green groups go in there and say “Use windmills and solar”… it’s ridiculous. If you just had reliable energy and clean water in these towns you could increase the living standards by 10 years. Do you think the people in these African villages are worried about global warming? Come on, really. This is something that a really rich elite people worry about. Dan Proft: Well, so speaking to energy, let’s transition to one of the other hats you wear, and that is, along with Art Laffer and Larry Kudlow of the kind of free market junta, if you will, your economic policy advisor to the Trump campaign. Steve Moore: We are; it’s been interesting, and I’ve really loved it working with Trump. I’ve met him a couple of times in person. We’ve got good, really productive meetings with him. That’s Donald Trump right there. But he’s a charming guy, I think he’s listening to our advice. We’re putting together a really good tax plan. By the way, I want to show it to your audience. This is Steve Moore’s phone. I’m still living in the 1980. Dan Proft: That’s a museum piece. You don’t have to worry about texting Steve Moore. He doesn’t have that capacity. Steve Moore: Anyway, I think Trump has a great economic plan, in a way that some of my conservative and libertarian friends – I haven’t talked to you about it, but those who say, “I’m going to vote for Hillary or even a libertarian”. Dan Proft: But never Trump. Steve Moore: I think it’s crazy. I think this is a consequential election, Trump is much better on tax policies, much better on energy policy, he is going to cut government spending, he is going to repeal Obamacare. Some of the things he stands for, some of the trade restrictions, I’m not in favor of, but I think on balance, this is a pretty… you know, he’s over here, she’s over here. And I also do think, I find it very attractive that he’s not a professional politician, that he’s not scripted. Hillary is the ultimate… can you think of anyone, anyone on the planet who is more of a Washington insider than Hillary Clinton? Dan Proft: And more mechanical. Steve Moore: Right. And less likeable. Dan Proft: And less likeable. I mean the cackle is infectious. It really softens her, but it’s also one of the reasons why Trump still is competitive in this race, it’s because she is as unpopular as he is, that his party’s a problem. Steve Moore: I think the reason that Trump is going to win this race, and I do, even though he’s down in the polls right now, is because you look at the killer statistic right now for Hillary. Is the country on the right track or on the wrong track, that poll. And that poll, for the last couple of years has shown. Dan Proft: Almost 3 to 1. Steve Moore: About 65% say wrong track. 20-25% say… not quite 3 to 1, but pretty close. Hillary is running for Obama’s third turn. How do you win, when people watching and they certainly don’t want another four years of Obama? Dan Proft: Going back to the role that you’re playing along with your colleagues for Trump, he’s got these good policy proposals that you’re helping to craft and shape, so when is he going to start talking about fuel and repealing Obamacare and some of these other matters that may provide more political advantage for him as well? Steve Moore: Well, he does. Dan Proft: He talks about the outsider businessman and less about some of the other things that have, frankly, made the last three weeks of the campaign pretty difficult for him. Steve Moore: That’s for sure. He’s had a bad couple of weeks, no question; maybe the worst two weeks of his campaign have been the last two. To be fair with Trump, he does talk about those. He gave a speech two or three weeks ago on energy policy in North Dakota, which was fabulous. It was practically right out of our book. It didn’t get any attention, because the press doesn’t pay any attention to that. When he says something that could offend somebody, somewhere, that’s what they play up. But I’m very angry, have to say this on your radio show, I think the republicans are wimps. When was the last time, Dan, you saw any democrat denounce something that Barrack Obama or Hillary Clinton said? When? Dan Proft: They always close ranks. Steve Moore: Right, they. They answer their questions never, right? You go google it, you’re not going to find Harry Reid say, “How dare Hillary Clinton say such?” And she says outrageous things. Remember four or five months ago, she equated republicans to terrorists. You know, she wants all the coal miners to lose their job. Did you see the few democrats that were left, Joe Manchin, go under the microphone and say, “How dare Hillary say this? I demand for her to renounce what she said!” Dan Proft: That’s actually a great illustration, because what did Joe Manchin do? He hosted a little town hall with her to try and show her her offering. Steve Moore: That didn’t work out so well. Dan Proft: No, it didn’t, but it shows you… Bill Buckley used to say this, is that the republicans do a bad job picking up their wounded on the battlefield, where the democrats do. Steve Moore: That’s a great point. Dan Proft: She’s struggling in Coal Country, she’s struggling in West Virginia advance of their primary. Let’s bring her in, and Joe Manchin, you host a little town hall for her. Whereas, on the other side, you’ve got a lot of people that are jettisoning Donald Trump, “I’m not going to the convention, he’s this, he’s that”, essentially adopting the description of Trump that is being promulgated by the New York Times. Steve Moore: You know, for example, your senate candidate here, Mark Kirk, the republican, he’s the incumbent, if I were advising Mark, and Mark’s a friend of mine, I like him, I’d say, “When they bait you about what do you think about Donald Trump, don’t go after Donald Trump, attack Hillary”. Say, “What about what Hillary said about this or that?” or “Hillary’s completely out to lunch on this” and pivot back. You’re right, the democrats are so much better at that, and if the republicans lose, it will be partly because of this. And there’s also another element of this, though, Dan. Republicans, in my opinion, have been so beaten down by the left for 30 years – you’re racists, you’re xenophobes, you’re bigots – so Trump says something to the microphone, “I’m not a bigot, it’s that guy”. “It’s Trump who’s the bigot; see what a big man I am?” It’s crazy, why would they do that?Dan Proft: Just on the policy front, I’m going back to that briefly, you mentioned trade, which kind of glossed over. Trade accounts for about a fifth of the jobs in this country now, exporting and importing goods, and Donald Trump sounds very much like, if this was a different era, it would be Smoot, Hawley and Trump. Steve Moore: Well, I hope not. By the way, Smoot-Hawley was certainly a catastrophe for the country, and it helped prolong significantly the Great Depression; turned what was just a financial downturn into a great depression, but I talk to Trump about trade and what I believe would be a smart position for Trump is to keep saying, “Look, we’re going to negotiate better deals”, because the truth is the vast majorities Americans don’t believe that these trade deals that have been negotiated for the last 20 years have been pro-American worker. They believe that they’re putting America last, and that China cheats and that Japan cheats. And the truth is they do cheat. So maybe negotiating better will, in the long run, actually help promote global trade. Because I don’t know, I am a free trader, no doubt about it. I’m not wincing at all on that, but I do think that if you have a vast majority of Americans who think free trade is not in America’s interest, we’d better do something to assuage them of their fears, or else the whole free trade movement will cave in. Dan Proft: Yeah, and just to be clear, at least philosophically, as an economist, it pays to be preemptory free trade, right? So, I mean, part of this isn’t negotiating good deals. If you’re a free market purist, you would say, “I’m going to be free trade even if my trading partners are cheating”. Steve Moore: No matter what. Exactly. My friends at Cato Institute would say that. We should just be unilaterally free trade, because it helps us. I’m not there. I think if we can use our leverage… the best outcome would be for both countries to be free trade. So if we’re only free trade and they’re not… Dan Proft: So free trade’s a learner game, of sorts. Steve Moore: Maybe we can use our leverage to make this country force them to be more free trade. And, obviously, it’s in their own interest to be free trade, but maybe we can do that. By the way, it’s not just trade, though. It is true that these countries, like China and Japan, especially China, they are stealing our patents and our copyrights, intellectual property. That’s a big deal. What we produce in this country, more and more, is incredible inventions and pharmaceuticals and drugs and computer software, those kinds of things are stolen by the Chinese. So, to some of the extent, the rest of the world free rides and freeloads on our inventions and our ingenuity, and that too, they have to reimburse us for those kinds of things. Dan Proft: And indicting some Chinese nationals in up Sanchez is not enough to really strike a blow against piracy, as the Obama regime is essentially contented itself to… Steve Moore: Yeah, I mean the problem with Obama is they’re too busy going after Google, an America company, than they are these Chinese companies that actually are stealing. Dan Proft: So this also speaks to the Trump getting back on script, and even if they don’t cover the speech in North Dakota, meaning the Washington Press Corp, people will cover Trump, so forcing this conversation when he’s on the Sunday talk shows or everywhere else, and that is going back speaking to Americans’ really economic security concerns. We have numbers that say we have full employment, but there’re millions of Americans who feel like their life is worsening and the prospects for their children are even more frightening, and it seems like since he essentially secured the nomination, Trump has moved away from that. Steve Moore: I agree. I believe that if Trump between now and election talked nothing except the economy and jobs, he would win. Now people like the fact that Trump is Trump. A lot of people like the fact that he’s not scripted. I don’t want to change the man’s persona, but I think he’s got to be more disciplined – I’ve told him this, “You’ve got to be more disciplined in your message. Talk about the economy”. Democrats are incredibly disciplined, you know, in that regard. They never leave the script. I’m saying Trump would be better off if he moved in that direction. I don’t want him to be entirely scripted, because that’s part of his charm. When I get into a taxi cab or talk to a construction worker, or a school teacher, or a vet, you know, “What do you like about Donald Trump?” he says it like is, and he’s not scripted, he’s not a professional politician, and they like the fact that he’s going to rattle the cages in Washington. And frankly, I live in Washington; it is time to rattle those cages. And this really is, my theme is, if Trump wins – and I think he will – it will be a remaking of the Republican Party, and elites of the party, you know elites of the party who say they can’t vote, they can’t stomach Trump. So fine, don’t let the door hit your ass on the way out. They only want to leave, but this will be a more proworker party, that takes into account the concerns and the fears of the average worker, because the democrats don’t care about working class Americans anymore. They’ve sided with Tom Steyers and the greens and the feminists and groups like that. I think that you’re right. Trump has to keep it focused on the economy. Period. Dan Proft: But this is the opportunity to bring back – to bring in, I should say – those people that the Democrat Party has formerly jettisoned. So, trade unionists and others that kind of are small sea conservatives and don’t have a home right now. Steve Moore: Yes, and he’s doing that. Exactly. If he pulls this off, you’re going to get millions of those. And this is interesting because, not all, but most of the trade unions are endorsing Hillary. And Trump is right. He’s like, “How in the world can you endorse Hillary? She’s trying to destroy your jobs”. And he’s got to keep pressing that message, because you know this, you’re old enough to remember this. Ronald Reagan won million of union households. Dan Proft: The Reagan Democrats. Steve Moore: Right. If he wins, there could be a permanent realignment of the party, and that’s what I’m saying. The neo-cons’, the ones that want America to be adventurous around the world, they’re the ones who are most threatened by Trump, and the other people that are threatened by Trump is the political class. There is – you’ve been in politics, you know this – there’s a professional political class in both parties. It’s a cartel. Ted Cruz was right about that. Dan Proft: Not just the politicians, the elected officials, but also the consultants. Steve Moore: Exactly; the pollsters, the consultants, the lobbyists in this incestuous relationship. And they’re not ideological; they don’t care. They just want somebody they can do business with. They can’t do business with Trump, but I can guarantee you, they can do business with Hillary. And so a lot of these republican consultants, they’re the people who are slamming Trump the hardest. Dan Proft: I mean, Illinois is like a microcosm of that problem in DC, which is the permanent institutional class, which is if you’re in, we’re in; if you’re not in, we’re still in. Steve Moore: Exactly. Dan Proft: We’re always in. Steve Moore: “We’ll outlast you”. That’s the first thing that they say to a new governor or a new mayor. “We’ll be here long after you’re gone”. Dan Proft: So somebody who’s also worked on the hill and has advised republican candidates and republican leadership on economic policy up and down the food chain, 24 republican US senators up for reelection; you’ve got Paul Ryan seemingly kind of still trying to find his sweet spot as speaker of the House. So much focus on Trump – understandably, he’s the nominee, or presumed to be. What about republicans in the House and those 24 republican senators and the rest of their colleagues in the senate, and what their policy agenda is, and what their brand is, and what ideas they’re promoting or not promoting? Steve Moore: It’s a good question. Paul Ryan’s been putting out these white papers, and so on, on poverty reduction, tax reform, welfare reform. It’s a good stop, but I don’t think people are paying a lot of attention to that; my attitude is, Paul Ryan - who’s a good friend of mine, a dear friend of mine, I love Paul Ryan – stop telling us what you’re going to do, and do it! We don’t need more white papers and policy visit. Just do it! You have control of the House, you have control of the Senate. Get these bills to Barrack Obama’s desk and force him to veto them. That’s what the democrats did against Bush. Why aren’t republicans doing that to Obama? Force him to veto a corporate tax cut. Force him to veto a bill that reins in some of these ridiculous Obamacare mandates. Force him to veto the bill that reigns in these EPA rules that are putting our coal miners out. Stand with these people! These people really are spineless. They are the pro-life party because they are in the fetal position all the time. I’m frustrated with Paul a little bit. Stop telling us what you’re going to do and do it! Dan Proft: What is the problem with Paul Ryan, because it’s not like he is – I know he’s got a primary challenge – but it’s not like he is in a particularly precarious place, politically, himself. He has this opportunity to lead the way he would he would have had an opportunity to lead had he and Mitt Romney won in 2012. So it’s something he’s been thinking about for the 20 years he’s been in DC, and he’s aspired opportunities to lead. He’s got an opportunity to lead. So why isn’t he doing what you’re suggesting? Steve Moore: I don’t know. I think part of it is because it is – you’ve got 200, and what are the numbers, 228 republicans, and it’s hard to get them all marching in the same direction. I think part of it is he doesn’t agree with Trump on some things. But the things that he does agree with Trump, the tax reform plan we’re doing with Donald Trump, Art Laffer that Larry Kudlow and I are working on, that’s right in the Paul Ryan sweet zone, and I don’t understand why he is so eager to attack Trump. I do think there’s a hang together – hang separately problem the republicans find themselves in, and they fall for the bait. They keep attacking Trump, and they’re attacking Trump as aggressively as Hillary is. Dan Proft: But Paul Ryan, for example, he could also provide leadership where Trump would follow. If you say to Trump, “Look, I need you on board for this corporate tax bill that I’m going to run”, Trump probably would fall in line in the interest of advancing his own political fortune. But it’s clear that Ryan hasn’t made that overture. Steve Moore: No, because I think he’s fallen victim of the Mitt Romney syndrome and I’ll have 57. I think there’s just too much, it’s too full a plate, and he’s got to concentrate in two or three things. If I were Paul Ryan, I were the speaker, given the lousy job report that we had and the lousy FED report that came out a week or two ago that shows less than 2% growth from now until kingdom come, is come out with a real republican’s stimulus plan; cut the corporate tax rate to 15% and small business tax to 15%, allow repatriation of all this capital that’s leaving the United States; get that ran out through congress and send it to Obama’s desk. As I said, the democrats are so good at forcing the republican’s hands, but we’re not good, and that’s why we’re the stupid party. Dan Proft: And what do you think the best argument is for those that have qualms about Trump? It seems to me one of the best arguments has been Supreme Court Justices, right? Especially with the story recently that Clarence Thomas could retire after November. Steve Moore: How are you going to be on that, Dan? But look, I think that’s obvious, but I think there’s a bigger point. I think these people fail to acknowledge that we are in a cultural war in this country with the left. The left is out of control. I’ve been at too many events where I’ve been shouted down by the left or shut up by the left. I’ve been at events where they’d come in and they just... you know. The left is out of control in America. We have to take back our country from them, and if you give them 4 more years, you’re affirming what they’re doing. I mean, Cleveland – I’ll be at Cleveland, I don’t know if you’re going to the convention. Dan Proft: Yeah. Steve Moore: Are you going to be broadcasting from there? Dan Proft: Yeah. Steve Moore: Well, I’ll do the show when I’m up there. Dan Proft: Yeah, great. Steve Moore: I think the left is going to shut that city down. Good! I want the American people to see! Dan Proft: They may shut down Philadelphia too, while they’re at it. Steve Moore: Exactly. I mean, good, I want the American people to see what these people are up to and how radicalized they’ve become. Dan Proft: But the argument from conservatives, the #NeverTrumps, even listening to Steve Moore say, “Yeah, Trump has an economic plan”; Steve Moore and Art Laffer, and then Larry Kudlow, it’s great. I agree with it. The problem is I don’t trust Trump. He’s ultimately a man of the left or he’s a man without any moorings, and so I can’t trust him and that’s why I can’t sign on. So what do you say to that? Steve Moore: I think he’s pretty conservative. Look, he’s a deal maker, he’s a businessman. If he gets into the White House he’s going to make deals. Some of them we’re not going to like. We’re not going to like them, we’ll complain about them on the radio. But a lot of them will move the country in a more positive direction. I believe that after 8 years of Obama, there is so much low hanging fruit out there, so many easy things you can do from day one; get the pipeline going. We’ve seen some of these antigrowth regulations. Just changing the personnel, my God, when I talk to business owners, they say, “You can’t believe how anti-business these people are. They hate business”. The people are wanting the regulatory interests. People are policy. Putting good people that are pro-business rather than antibusiness, that makes a big sense. I know what you’re thinking. Dan Proft: Treasury Secretary Steve Moore? Steve Moore: Yeah, right. You could do worse. Dan Proft:. Larry Kudlow? See, this is the thing. He released this possible Supreme Court nominee list. He needs to release where Steve Moore, Art Laffer, Larry Kudlow are going to fit into the administration. Steve Moore: I think on the economy he’s going to be very strong, and I think he’s going to be pro-life, and I think he’s going to put good people on the Supreme Court. Saw him make some deals that we don’t like, but I think, on balance… Hillary is a disaster. She’s four more years, and people forget. They say, “Well, we’ll win back in 2020”. No, it’s hard to beat an incumbent. If Hillary wins in 2016, the odds are that she’s going to win again. And that’s 16 years out of power. If you put 6 of the democrats in charge of the government for 16 years with all the Supreme Court appointments, we’re not going to recognize our country by the year 2024. Dan Proft: A lot of people, to your point, made that same argument about Bill Clinton to punish George Herbert Walker Bush in 92. Steve Moore: I was one of those people. Dan Proft: We’ll give him one term, and then we’ll win in 96. Steve Moore: Well, I have to say, I was one of those people. I actually voted against George H. W. Bush in 1992, because I could not forgive him for the tax increase. It was just unforgivable. Dan Proft: Right. Steve Moore: Then actually we got Bill Clinton, but then we got a Republican Congress, one with new Newt Gingrich. I mean, it is funny how all these things work out, but let’s give Trump a try. He’s won the primary, he’s bringing in millions and new people into the party, and I think he’s going to move the country in a very pro-growth direction. Dan Proft: Alright, that’s Steve Moore, economic policy advisor for the Trump campaign, former Wall Street Journal editorial board, current chief economist of the Heritage Foundation and the author of the new book “Fueling Freedom”, which you should pick up. Steve Moore, thank you for joining us.

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Two-term New Mexico Governor and successful entrepreneur Gary Johnson ran as the Libertarian Party candidate for President in 2012 and he’s the favorite to be that party’s nominee in 2016. Early polling has Johnson at 11%. If he gets to 15% he’s in the POTUS debates. With the move away from religion and toward Libertarian philosophy combined with the unpopularity of Trump and Hillary, could 2016 be the year Libertarians make their mark on American electoral politics?

Gov. Gary Johnson joined Dan & Amy this morning to discuss.

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