Dan: Good morning. Whaddup, Dan and Amy. This programming note the McHenry County Republican Party is holding its annual Lincoln Leadership Dinner on February 6th at the Crystal Lake Holiday Inn. Speakers include retired NFL star Jim "RoboCop" Thorton. Remember him, Amy? RoboCop? Amy: Yes, I do remember him. Dan: How do you remember him? Amy: Oh, don't Dan: Finally. Is this Amy: Oh, no. Dan: Do you have, like, another Edward James Olmos story here? Amy: Oh, no. Oh, no. Anywho, yes, where is it going to be? Dan: RoboCop Thorton who also was a leadership specialist with 20+ years in U.S. Special Forces, McHenry County Republican Party space is limited so purchase your tickets today. Visit [inaudible].com and search the keyword "Lincoln." Amy: I think you speak at more Lincoln Day Dinners than anybody I know. Dan: And I'm a better speaker. Amy: Well, how many have you done? Dan: Iñ Amy: 30? Now we're back on it again? Dan: I've lost count. Amy: Okay. Dan: I've done many, many and they're always a ton of fun. Amy: Good. Dan: But this would be much more funnier from Thorton than hear from me. So Amy, as we talk about what's happening in college campuses around the country, we eliminate the schools that Payton and Eli, your two sons, can potentially attend. I think we Amy: I have my list. Dan: I think we basically eliminated about 80% of the colleges, universities in the country at this point. Amy: There's 32 on the list. Dan: Yeah. One of those schools, they may still attend. Amy: Yes. Dan: Is Oklahoma Wesleyan University. Amy: M-hmm. Dan: That is an evangelical Christian university. The president of that university came to a bit of a national attention in the midst of the all of the nonsense, the totalitarianism on college campuses, the lack of respect for intellectual diversity, for differences of opinion. When you wrote a piece that essentially explained why a university is not a daycare center in part, Dr. Everett Piper, the president of Oklahoma Wesleyan University wrote, at his school: "We teach you to be selfless rather than self-centered. We are more interested in you practicing personal forgiveness than political revenge. We want you to model interpersonal reconciliation rather than foment personal conflict." But: "Oklahoma Wesleyan is not a "safe place", it's a place to learn: to learn that life isn't about you, but about others; that the bad feeling you have while listening to a sermon is called guilt; that the way to address it is to repent. This is a place where you will learn quickly that you need to grow up. This is not a day care. This is a university." Maybe you should audit some classes at Oklahoma Wesleyan University as well. Amy: There you go. Dan: You could go with Payton and Eli. All right, so Dr. Everett Piper, the president of the foresaid Oklahoma Wesleyan University joins us now. Dr. Piper, thanks for being with us. Dr. Everett Piper: Thank you, I'm pleased to join you. Dan: So Dr. Jerry Falwell, Jr. at Liberty University, also an evangelical Christian university, invited Donald Trump to speak there, and then did him one better by endorsing him. You have said Donald Trump will not be invited to speak at Oklahoma Wesleyan and thereby your have no plans to endorse him. Why the difference of opinion with Jerry Falwell, Jr. and what did you think about his decision? Dr. Everett Piper: Well, my explanation is really quite brief and quite simple. Anyone who has mocked a handicapped, anyone who has called women fat, ugly, "pigs," and worse but I won't quote on the radio station right now anyone who has endorsed the fiscal wisdom of the Obama administration, anybody who has praised [inaudible] leadership prowess, anybody who has been on the cover of Playboy magazine and proud of it I could go on and on is not somebody who represents the ideals of Oklahoma Wesleyan University, and therefore, barring a debate, I would welcome him if he wants to come and debate his ideas with somebody else that disagrees with him. But to put him at the podium as if he's representing us and who we are as an institution would be unacceptable because that would be to disregard our mission, to disregard those things we hold dear as a Christian community and there's a time where you say, "No, that's not who we are. No, you're not going to be at my podium and speak as if you represent Oklahoma Wesleyan University." Dan: And then what about Falwell and the decision he made to invite him to Liberty to do just what you said you wouldn't do at Oklahoma Wesleyan, and then the decision to endorse? Dr. Everett Piper: Well, obviously, I disagree with that. And obviously, I wouldn't endorse him, and I'm not endorsing him. Dr. Falwell has actually said that the reason he's endorsing is because of his business [side?]. He's ran a successful business. And I understand that when you elect a president or electing a commander-in-chief, we're not electing a priest or a pastor. I understand that debate. However, I do think character matters. And character is important leadership. And leadership does dictate the general tone and cadence, if you will, of the cultural conversation. So I disagree with that. The reason [that he has?] children is because he wants a successful business well, let me ask this rhetorical question: if running a successful business is the predicate for being the president of the United States, why don't you endorse Hugh Hefner? He has ran a successful business. Amy: Do you think a possibility that Dr. Jerry Falwell, Jr., was he done any donations or any promises of monetary donations in the future? Is that why he might've endorsed him? Dr. Everett Piper: You know, actually, I've seen no evidence of that. I know a lot of people that are angry with Dr. Falwell that suggested that. That's speculation and I'm not going to go there. I don't know if there's any quid pro quo, and I really would be disappointed to find out that there is one. And I'm not going to suggest that there is unless somebody had evidence supporting [me?]. Dan: In the piece that you wrote about Donald Trump, you wrote, said: "I refuse to let my desire to win "trump" nice little play on words there "my moral compass. I refuse to let my desire to win "trump" my moral compass." That's such an interesting statement because in our political culture, we love the horse race. You have the bandwagging the fact whoever wins, that's where we need to be because they're winning. And we don't often, maybe often enough, ask the question, "What do we win if we 'win?'" Right? Dr. Everett Piper: What do you win if you saw off the branch upon which you're sitting? What are you going to win? You're going to fall down, you're going to get hurt because you hit the ground, as a result with falling off the moral branch upon which you're sitting to make your argument. And if we believe in a constitutional republic, if we believe in the free people, if we believe in the values and virtues that have made this nation the most prosperous and the most free nation in human history which mostly anybody listening to me would have to admit that indeed, the United States has enjoyed those gifts of providence. If we believe in those things then we have to recognize we sit upon some branch that gives us that stability. And if victory is more important than that branch of virtue, you saw that branch off, you come tumbling down, and you're going to be in a very ugly place. It's very similar to my argument in my Not a Day Care piece. I don't care about your victimization card, what I care about is you landing virtue. And frankly, Republican Party, I don't care about victory if you're going to sell your soul and sell your virtue to have that power. Let me [inaudible] for saying this: I used to be very critical, and still, I am very critical of the feminist movement for selling its soul to the power of Bill Clinton. Of all the people the feminist should've been [inaudible] with, it should've been a president who is having sex in the oval office with one of his interns. And then being accused by other women of sexual advances that's not rape and not being held accountable for those actions. Why did the feminist let that happen? It was pure and simple: power. They wanted power. Conservatives can't make the same [inaudible] by selling their soul for power and victory. Amy: So you think we're selling our soul to the devil by supporting Donald Trump? Some of us? Dr. Everett Piper: I'm not saying you're selling your soul to the devil. I think that's hyperbolic language that somebody else could say. So that's not my quote. But I'm saying is, yes. Amy: But I agree with what you're saying, though. Yes. Dr. Everett Piper: What I'm saying is this: is your virtue more important than a victory? Veritas. Truth. Latin for "truth" is veritas. Truth more important than winning and more important than the power that comes with the bully pulpit. There are times when you stand for what's right, and if you lose waving that banner, so be it. You lost doing the right thing. [inaudible] not to speakers to speaking, not to actors to act. Silence in the face of evil is evil itself. God will not [inaudible]. What happened to Bonhoeffer? He was hanged in a Nazi prison camp just before the end of World War II. Did he lose? I would argue no. For eternity, he won, but he was willing to lose his life for the sake of what was right. Dan: Some by [vice?] to rise, and others by virtue fall. Dr. Everett Piper, we're talking to, he is the president of Oklahoma Wesleyan University, an evangelical Christian university in Oklahoma, obviously. Dr. Piper, I got to get your take on college campuses. I mean, there's so many examples to discuss to underscore the intolerance on college campuses, the ignorance on college campuses. But one know that doubled up this week is perhaps really fascinating, because you see the politically correct totalitarians annihilating themselves. And this is at University of Oregon where "student leaders" are debating whether or not to remove a portion of Martin Luther King's 'I Have a Dream' speech because it didn't contemplate gender identity. Your reaction? Dr. Everett Piper: The ideological fascism that is running rampant on our campuses versus the intellectual freedom that the liberal arts academy has historically stood for. Let me answer your question this way: the liberal arts academy has established some 1,000 years ago, let's say Oxford at Cambridge, to do what? To liberate us. To give us an education in liberty and freedom. To educate a free man, a free woman, and a free society. That's the word 'liberal arts education' the classical liberal believed in freedom and justice. But it was grounded in what? The only word that's still on Oxford [inaudible], veritas. Truth. Jesus said, "The truth shall set you free." Not your personal opinion and not your politically correct agenda. Truth is the only context for freedom. What you see at the University of Oregon and Missouri and Yale and elsewhere, its ideological fashions and where you must submit, you must think like I do. My opinion will crush you. You will be silenced if you disagree. Rather than the robust exchange [inaudible] idea that is grounded in the truth of Christ and the truth of Scripture, the revelation of God rather than the personal opinion of [inaudible] or Hitler or students. Or faculty. Or me. I'm not going to give you a degree in opinions that [inaudible] Wesleyan University. I want you to learn something that's right and just and true when you graduate. Dan: Dr. Everett Piper, president of Oklahoma Wesleyan University. Amy: I love you and I agree with everything that you said about Donald Trump. We pray for him in church, by the way. Dan: There's a couple of Jacobson boys that are going to be matriculating your university in a few short years so look for them, and watch over them, please. Dr. Everett Piper, thanks so much for joining us. Appreciate it. Dr. Everett Piper: Blessings, guys.