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forced unionization

Democrats Encouraged The Mob

Will the Kavanaugh confirmation be good for economic liberty? Was this a watershed moment for the Republican Party? Did Democrats not only tolerate but cheer on mob rule? If more Republicans win their elections should we be prepared for a second round of tax cuts? Did the Janus decision affect the Democratic Party’s fundraising by force? President for Americans for Tax Reform, Grover Norquist joins Dan and Amy to discuss. 

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Janus Decision Salvation For Blue States

If manufacturing is growing, why the tariffs? Who is going to end up on the losing side of the Trump trade war? Is Illinois one of the biggest winners of the Janus decision? CNN Chief Economist, Steve Moore joins Dan and Shaun to discuss.

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The Supreme Court Rules For Worker Freedom

In a landmark decision last week, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled in favor of Illinois state worker Mark Janus, protecting his free speech and the free speech of public sector workers across the country. What will the impact be for workers and taxpayers alike? On this edition of Illinois Rising, Dan Proft and Wirepoints President Ted Dabrowski discuss the Court’s decision with Janus’ lead attorney Jacob Huebert of the Liberty Justice Center. Proft and Dabrowski also talk about the economic impact the decision might have. And beyond the Janus case, they discuss the outrageous payments and benefits disgraced members of Mike Madigan’s inner circle are receiving despite sexual harassment allegations levied against them.

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Victory For Mark Janus

Have the historical implications of the Janus decision sunk in yet for state worker, Mark Janus? What led him to take up this fight in the first place? How can the unions claim to stand up for the middle class while advocating for tax increases? Mark Janus, the state worker who sued AFSCME over forced union dues and won his Supreme Court case yesterday, joins Dan and Amy with reaction to the SCOTUS decision.

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Banner Day For Worker Freedom

Are public sector unions worried becuase they now have to earn their members? Since government workers are no longer forced to pay union dues, what does this mean politically for the Democratic party, especially in Chicago and Illinois? Is this the death of public sector unions in the country? Pat Hughes, President of the Liberty Justice Center, joins Dan and Amy to discuss the implications of the Janus decision.

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Janus Update After First Day Of Oral Arguments

Why is Gorsuch the only justice who hasn’t asked a single question? Did Justice Kennedy hit the nail on the head when he asked if unions will lose political power if Janus prevails in the case and the attorney representing the union answered “yes?” Rauner was in attendance, but why didn’t he file an amicus brief like other Republican governors? Staff attorney and labor expert for the Illinois Policy Institute, Mailee Smith joins Dan and Amy to discuss.

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Proft: Good morning, Dan and Amy. We're coming to you live from Mueller CPA's in Elgin...Mueller, not Muller. Jacobson: Mueller, yes, Mueller. Like Bueller. Mueller. Proft: Yes. No relation to the Special Counsel, let me make that clear. Mueller CPAs is part of our AM850/Signature Bank Business Tour... Jacobson: At 7:37 we're going to have the managing partner! Proft: Yeah, Dave Nissen, we're gonna talk to. And uh...man, they put out a nice spread for us. Jacobson: I mean, really...I don't want to go home. Because we could have breakfast... Proft: This is how ya live. This is how civilized people live. Jacobson: You could have breakfast, lunch, and dinner here, really. And then you could have dinner drinks, because they have a Bloody Mary bar... Proft: Yeah! Jacobson: ...for you. Proft: This, I mean...CPAs know how to live. Jacobson: They do! And they know how to entertain. This whole conference is great, this whole thing is perfect. Proft: I bet. Yeah, it's all very nice, and then we'll go back to our miserable lives, at 9 o'clock. So yesterday, we talked to Pat Hughes from Liberty Justice Center, oral arguments underway shortly after our show, 10am Central Time, before the Supreme Court, all nine Justices, Janus v AFSCME. This is a followup to the Friedrichs case, that was deadlocked 4-4 after Justice Scalia's untimely passing. And this would, if the court rules in favor of Mark Janus, who is an Illinois state worker, works with the Department of Human Services, would end "Fair Share", would arguably...from one perspective...provide worker freedom, and would really decimate the political power and financial wherewithal of public sector unions. So it's a big case, and that's why you've seen all the national coverage, and it's really a case that germinated in Chicago, with the Illinois Policy Institute and the Liberty Justice Center, Pat Hughes the president of that, that we spoke to yesterday. Today, right now we speak with Mailee Smith, who is a staff attorney and labor expert for the aforesaid Illinois Policy Institute. Mailee, thanks for joining us, appreciate it. Smith: Hi, thanks for having me! Proft: So, with respect to the oral arguments yesterday, you know it's always a dangerous business trying to read the questions and the facial expressions of Supreme Court Justices...but it was interesting to note that the gentleman that replaced Scalia, Neil Gorsuch, didn't ask a single question. He was the only Justice who said nothing throughout the duration of oral arguments. What did you make of that? Smith: Right. You know, I haven't had the opportunity yet to watch him in session, so I wasn't sure what to expect from him. But you know, I think probably staying silent was a good move because no one can latch on to what he said...if he didn't say it! They can't latch on and one side say "Oh, we're going to win!" and the other side say "Oh, they're going to lose!", or whatever the case may be. So I think it was probably just playing it safe and by staying silent, there isn't some kind of crazy media storm, guessing what he intended. Jacobson: Well, what were some of the questions asked by the other Justices? Smith: You know, the rest of the questions really went along the lines that we would have expected, and I thought that Kennedy was definitely one of the most interesting questioners...he pointed out several times the political nature of Union speech. He brought up the fact that, you know, they're advocating for a greater work force, for higher wages, for massive government. And he asked point-blank, "If you don't prevail in this case," to the Union's attorney, "If you don't prevail in this case, are the unions going to have less political influence?" And the attorney answered "Yes." And he says "Isn't that the end of this case? Meaning you just admitted that this is all about political power and you want that money for your political agenda" Proft: And so, they didn't advance the case, they...well, the argument that's often made in the context of political discussions, not so sure legal ones, but the idea that the people that want to opt out of the Union and "Fair Share" are still deriving benefits from the deal that the Union negotiated and so that's not fair. Smith: Umm, that was...that, that subject was discussed. I think the phrase "freerider" might have only come up one time, two times, but really I would say that a good part of the focus was that collective bargaining itself is inherently political. because you're talking about increased wages, higher taxes...all of that is a public concern, and that therefore makes it political. Umm...so the "freerider" argument did come up, but Justice Roberts also brought up the fact that the argument on the other side is the need to attract voluntary payment will make the unions more responsive. It will make them more efficient, more effective, more attractive to a broader group of people, and he said "What's wrong with that?" Umm, so, you know, the typical argument from those who appear to support the Union were made, but there was definitely pushback both ways. Proft: Well, yeah, and it's...so here's another thing too, and this is sort of like you being an Olympic commentator, you're trying to look for things to talk about in addition to the actual substantive legal arguments that we pored over...but one thing that was interesting since you brought Roberts up. His guest, yesterday? Education Secretary Betsy DeVos. Smith: Right, yes I met her, right. Proft: And I don't know, you know, and again here we're trying to do the silly work of pundits and interpret something in that. But is there anything to the selection of guests and does that maybe portend where Roberts is coming from? I mean, Betsy DeVos is obviously a free marketeer when it comes to Education reform, and so ostensibly a K-12 education would be very different in a world with no "Fair Share" for the Teacher's Unions. Smith: Yeah, it was interesting...it was interesting to see her there, but I wouldn't venture to guess why she was picked. It could be that this was the day that worked out for her schedule, she was going to come someday, this day worked. You know, I don't think I would guess what...why she was there at that particular day. Jacobson: Well, speaking of guests, Governor Rauner was there, and according to the Sun-Times he launched this case, the Janus v. AFSCME. Is there any truth to that, or is that fake news? Smith: Well, Would he...he is the one who, you know...he had an executive order about this issue, he did file a case, but he was dismissed from the case very early on. Mark Janus was brought into the case by LJC, Liberty Justice Center, and they were...he was LJC's client, and they are the ones who have carried this case along with National Right to Work Legal Defense Foundation. So the Governor has been absent from this case pretty much from the very beginning. Proft: And he had an opportunity to participate with an amicus brief, other states did, he chose not to. Smith: That's right, right. And on the other hand, Lisa Madigan DID file a brief. Proft: Yes...for AFSCME, not for Janus! Smith: Right! Exactly. Jacobson: What side is Governor Rauner on? Because you never know. Proft: You never know. Here's the thing...well...speak to us a little bit about Mark Janus, i mean you know he has gotten a little bit of profile certainly in DC this week, but just as...he's a State of Illinois worker, a Human Services caseworker, I think from what I've seen of him, he has performed really admirably! He's performed very well under this kind of national press scrutiny on this case. Smith: Definitely! Right, definitely a lot of pressure. Mr. Janus, he's a Child Support Specialist with the State of Illinois, and you know, he loves his job. But he doesn't want to see...he doesn't want the unions to force him to support causes that he doesn't agree with. And that's really what the crux of this case is all about, it's about fairness and First Amendment freedoms. But for 40 years, government workers like Janus have been forced to make this decision; you either pay fees to the union or you lose your job. And it doesn't matter if they agree with the politics or the policies of the Union...they may not agree with the way that the Union is representing them, but they're still forced to pay these fees. And you're right, Mr. Janus has been an excellent face for this case, he's...he has definitely proven to be respected under pressure, and we look forward to seeing what this case does for him. Proft: All right, she is Mailee Smith, she is a staff attorney and labor policy expert for the Illinois Policy Institute. Mailee, thanks for joining us, appreciate it. Smith: Thanks so much!

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Exclusive Report From The SCOTUS

Is it unconstitutional to require public sector workers to pay union dues for a union they are not a part of and do not want to support? If unions are political in nature, why are government workers forced to subsidize their political speech? In Illinois especially, how is it that union leaders can negotiate salaries and benefits with the very people they made sure got into office? President of the Liberty Justice Center, Pat Hughes joins Dan and Amy from Washington D.C. to discuss the oral arguments beginning today in Janus v. AFSCME.

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Proft: Good morning, Dan and Amy, and there is a seminal labor case for which oral arguments will be heard before the Supreme Court today, that is Janus v. AFSCME. This case has the chance to change the political landscape in this country, to give public sector workers freedom with respect to their union dues, and to really cripple public sector unions, and the money they extract out of their employees. Mark Janus, who has become a bit of a celebrity because this is a case of such national import, is actually a staffer...he works for Illinois Department of Human Services, and this was the case that was to be decided in 2016 before Justice Scalia's death... Friedrichs v. California Teachers Association, the Court split 4-4, thus the lower court's decision stood, and that was to keep "Fair Share" in place. With Gorsuch now replacing Scalia, the prospects are pretty rosy for advocates for worker freedom, like the Liberty Justice Center, like National Right to Work, there are the insit...the organizations that are representing Mark Janus and who will be presenting oral arguments before the High Court today. And one of the individuals who's been spearheading this is the co-founder of the Liberty Justice Center. He is Pat Hughes, who joins us now. Pat, thanks for being with us, appreciate it. Hughes: Good morning, Dan, good morning, Amy, how are you? Proft: Good morning. So, just lay out the arguments of both sides and the implications were Mark Janus successful and the court rules in his favor. Hughes: So, no one is required to join a public sector union, but if you're a state employee in Illinois and you don't belong to the Union, you still have to pay agency fees, or what people call "Fair Share Dues". And our client, Mark Janus, doesn't want to pay those dues, because he doesn't want to affiliate with the Union or support the Union's speech or activity. And everything, Dan and Amy, that a public sector union does is political in nature, whether it's direct political activity, or collective bargaining. Because ostensibly through collective bargaining, what they're doing is lobbying the government to spend taxpayers dollars on their benefits, on their salaries, on other things, and so the nature of that Union is political, and being forced to support it financially is a violation of your First Amendment right to free speech, because you're making political speech that you don't want to make, in the case of Mark Janus, or rights of freedom of association. You should not be forcing them, as an American citizen, to associate with a group that you don't want to associate with them. So that's what's at issue today, and the oral arguments are at 10AM before the United States Supreme Court. Jacobson: So the High Court's going to determine whether these agency fees are unconstitutional. How do you think the Supreme Court Justices are going to vote on this, what's your prediction? Hughes: So, Dan set it up pretty well, and I don't want to make a PREDICTION, but before Justice Scalia died, it looked like there was going to be a 5-4 decision in favor of the principles of our case. And then when he died, Justice Gorsuch came in. So we're hopeful that the four Justices, and we expect the four Justices that ruled in our favor previously in the Friedrichs case will rule that way again and then it's hard to read the tea leaves, but Gorsuch seems to be the type of jurist who would see things the way that we do. And we're going to make strong arguments today, hope he sees it our way in the oral arguments and the briefs, and we're hopeful that they'll decide in our favor before the Summer's up. Proft: Just to put a fine point on it, to make this tangible for people, you know, kind of at bar it's...I think it was nicely encapsulated by this Wall Street Journal piece, "Mark Janus was with Hillary, whether or not he wanted to be." And it was the idea that the public sector unions went all in with Hillary Clinton, and people like Mark Janus, who maybe wanted to stay out of the race, maybe wanted to support Bernie Sanders, maybe wanted to support a Republican, they were forced to be with Hillary whether they wanted to or not, and that's of course the same thing that goes on for rank-and-file members of AFSCME or SEIU, or the teachers' unions here in Illinois, with respect to the, you know, 98% of money that's spent by those powerful public sector unions here, on Democrats. Hughes: Yeah, our position is a real easy one, Dan and Amy. Look, if you want to be a member of a public sector union, and you like the things the public sector union is offering, God bless you. Join the union, pay the dues, be part of that. We're not opposed to the rights of people to collectively bargain. But, if you don't want to be part of the union, if you don't want to be, for example, for Hillary as you just laid out, then you should not be forced to be part of that. And what's happened in this case, and with public employees who are non-union members all across the country, is that they're subsidizing the political activity and political speech of messaging and organizations that they don't want to be associated with. Proft: Well, why don't the Unions want to put themselves to that market test? I mean, if they're offering such a good product, and good representation, people would voluntarily choose to join. Hughes: It's a great question, and hopefully it's a result of what happens long term if we're able to be successful. I think the reason is, Dan, that if you can get someone to pay you something for nothing, it's a lot easier than getting them to do something for something, and I think the result of this case could be beneficial for everybody. It's beneficial for workers because they have more freedom, and they have the right to choose whether or not they want to associate with the Union, and how to spend their...that amount of money. But, it will also force the Unions to take a look at the people they want to have as members, be better and more service-oriented, and ultimately it could help strengthen their message, and internally sort of make them more competitive for those members, and that's a win-win for the worker, and ultimately, for the Union. Jacobson: So you really think Unions could survive if the Supreme Court rules in your favor? Hughes: I definitely think they'll survive, because people participate voluntarily in the unions as it is. Mark Janus, our client, is a public sector employee who's non-union, but there are plenty who join the union and want to be part of the union, and so they'll continue to go on. It'll just give everyone the right to choose whether they want to be a part of it. So unions will continue to exist, but in a different context and under a circumstance where they're going to have to be more attractive to potential membership. Proft: Yeah, they're going to lose members and they're going to lose money, and we had a little bit of a...little bit of foreshadowing on this if the decision were to go Janus' way, with the Budget Repair Bill in Wisconsin, where Governor Walker and Republicans up there pushed that...essentially eliminated Fair Share up there, and the Wisconsin Education Association, the teachers' union up there, saw their membership drop by like 40% virtually overnight. Hughes: Yeah, and you can say that...that's because you're giving people the right to choose. And that's the circumstance if people have a right to choose, that's how they chose in that instance. That is, perhaps, how people will choose across the country if the case goes our way. But then it becomes incumbent upon the unions to provide a product or a service that's beneficial, just like everywhere else. And if people think that product, or service, benefits them, and they think it's worth the money to pay for it, then they will. If they don't, they won't. And that will be what the Union will have to face, years off the face if that's the case. Jacobson: That's amazing...and I was in a union, and it was AFTRA/SAG, and I tried Pat, I said "I don't wanna be...I don't see what the benefit is", because they would give money to Democratic politicians. And I've given them THOUSANDS of dollars, you know they take it automatically out of your paycheck, whatever. And they said it wasn't an option for me to opt out. Proft: Yeah, it was a closed shop. Same thing for me when I was at WLS. Jacobson: A closed shop, yeah. But I mean, you wouldn't even have an option. If you guys win with this case, do you think that will help us with other unions? Proft: Free...free the SAG/AFTRA members, Pat! Hughes: Yeah...unfortunately, we will not be able to do that, Amy. look, this is...it's a different argument in a different circumstance, because it's a public sector union. Everything a public sector union does is associating with a governmental entity, so it's all political in nature. Collective bargaining for public sector unions is lobbying for taxpayer dollars, in any other context it would be called lobbying. So, there is a unique public nature of that activity when it's public sector vs. private sector, so this will be, if we are able to win this case, this will make it Right to Work for public sector union employees all over the country. And of course, the unions make the argument that the non-union members, if they aren't forced to pay, are "free riding" off their good work of collective bargaining. The reality of it is the unions have set up these laws this way so they're forced to bargain on behalf of all public sector employees so that they can go ahead and collect the dues, and have access to those employees. So, so, their counter-argument that these folks are "Free Riders" is a little bit specious in my opinion, and I'm hopeful that the justices will see through that today. Proft: Well, and it highlights the distinction that isn't made often enough between public sector and private sector unions, where you have an adversarial collective bargaining process in the private sector, and often times you have public sector unions that have captured management in the public sector and it's sort of a sham negotiation. Hughes: Yeah, because they're negotiating with the very people that they're... Proft: ...that they financed into office! Hughes: ...that they're in charge of putting in place. Proft: Right! Hughes: And if it doesn't go their way, there's the potential that they'll go find someone out there who's going to do their bidding. In Illinois, and I've had a lot of conversations with national media, so it's great to be talking to folks in Illinois, and in the Chicago area...in Illinois, everybody knows how powerful the public sector unions are in terms of representing people in the city of Chicago, or state representatives or state senators or even governors, and so there's an opportunity for the unions to put the politicians in that their ultimately going to negotiate with. Proft: Now, Governor Rauner has made his way out to DC to hear oral arguments today. You issued a letter last week rebuking the Governor though, slapping his hands for his pronouncements before the Chicago Tribune Editorial Board and elsewhere about the Janus case, about his involvement. You note in your letter that he doesn't play any role in this case, in fact that he had an opportunity to submit an amicus brief on behalf of Mark Janus, and he didn't do it. And so, why the chastisement of the Governor? Hughes: So, the Governor initiated the case, Dan, back in 2015, but then he was bounced out of it because he didn't have standing. He's had no role in it since that time, but in his primary election against Representative Ives, he is using this case, and another case of ours, as sort of main positions of his re-election campaign, and he's misrepresenting his role in the case, and he's making predictions about the case. He thinks...he's made a prediction that there's a 90% chance we'll win. Well, he shouldn't be doing that, because it's a mistake, and it's not responsible. And he shouldn't be misrepresenting his role. The reality of it is he didn't file an amicus brief in support of the case, he's had NO ROLE with respect to the case, and frankly he's trying to take credit for work that he didn't do in a political context, and in my opinion that's bad form. Secondarily, this case should not be politicized. This isn't about Republican workers or Democrat workers or independent workers, this is about workers all across the country, regardless of their ideological stripe, having the constitutional right to choose for themselves under the First Amendment, and it's not about any particular politician and it's certainly not about Governor Rauner's re-election. Proft: Boy, Governor Rauner misrepresenting himself or someone else...knock me over with a feather! He is Pat Hughes, President of the Liberty Justice Center, and he'll be there in DC today when oral arguments are presented before the Supreme Court, Janus v. AFSCME, you're going to want to follow the outcome of that case, which will be decided this term, meaning by the end of June. Pat, thanks so much for joining us, appreciate it. Hughes: Thank you for having me.

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IL House Bill To Imprison Local Officials For Enacting Right To Work Zones

During the veto session, a bill which would imprison local officials who choose to enact local right to work zones barely failed. Rep. Moylan has filed an amendment in a separate bill to remove the criminal penalties, but there’s still a chance that local leaders could be jailed just because they disagree on economic policy. Why is the General Assembly insistent on prohibiting local officials in Illinois to bring economic prosperity to their communities and have the ability to compete with neighboring states? Staff attorney and labor expert for the Illinois Policy Institute, Mailee Smith joins Dan and Kristen to discuss.

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Dan: Good morning. Dan, and in for Amy this morning, Kristen McQueary of the Chicago Tribune Editorial Board, and uh Kristen, uh this is shaping up to be quite an interesting state and local election cycle uh with uh the new front on the war against cultures of sexual harassment and assault being state houses including ours in Springfield. A Miami Harold piece over the weekend allegations of sexual assault, sexual harassment, and infidelity among the state’s legislators flew like shrapnel from a bomb blast in recent weeks uh and uh talking just about the internal politics there uh related to bad behavior perhaps in some instances maybe even criminal behavior when you talk about sexual assault and of course we had a woman come forward last week, Denise Rotheimer, and accuse incumbent state senator Ira Silverstein of sexual harassment. We’ve had other anonymous claims of sexual harassment and uh we find out that uh actually there were more than two dozen complaints members of the general assembly, maybe not all that were for sexual harassment related because we don’t know because there was no legislative inspector general for years so those complaints just sat there unacted upon and uh this is a failure of the leadership of both parties of the House and Senate starting with the speaker, Mike Madigan to uh fill this vacancy which all of the sudden got filled over the weekend Kristen: Right. D: Evanston lawyer Julie Porter named to the uh long standing vacancy to oversee state legislator ethics as if that’s not an oxymoron. K: Right, so they had someone who was suppos- like an aid who was collecting all of the complaints and uh making pretty decent coin for an obviously a very part time position because there was no inspector general so it was just kind of a legislative assistant and not even bothering to explore or look at them, so how heroic are our legislative leaders now that this has become a hot news story and they all look terrible? Now they’re rushing to fill this position, setting up task forces, passing new laws, um having their members sign statements, reminder policies up it’s it’s a little late. D: Yeah. K: It’s a little late for that. D: To for me, this smacks of a nonaggression pact between the two parties. “You’ve got bad actors in your caucus, I’ve got bad actors in mine, uh let’s just uh take the kind of mutually assured destruction pact. You don’t uh rat on me, and I won’t rat on you and we won’t appoint a legislative inspector general to investigate all this stuff, we’ll just enable it in our caucus by trying- by sweeping it under the rug and uh you know just get on about our business because of course character and uh personal conduct doesn’t matter when it comes to public policy making at least so I’ve been told by so many. K: Well Ira Silverstein was in democratic leadership in the Senate and they were made aware of of some of her complaints quite a while ago and didn’t remove him from leadership until, of course, it became an embarrassing headline and then I think Senator Terry Link also had a role in this where he knew that these complaints were piling up, but he took no responsibility to further- to open them, to read them, to explore them by filling this inspector general post, so they did know these complaints were piling up, they just didn’t bother to explore. D: And I’ve got to tell you, I think now um with a March election 100 days away and then obviously November 2018 election, but uh because they gamed the system to try and cover themselves uh uh uh I I mean I-you’ve got to give Julie Porter time to do her job and review all these complaints and so forth. I want the cl- I want the complaints released with the uh accusers’ names redacted unless the accuser wants to come public. The accusers’ names redact, but they they did this to themselves. This is not violative of their due process rights for those who would jump to that uh defense. It’s not violative. Those complaints should be made public right now because oh we say “well give her time in this process” no-no, no because you’ve got a March primary where you have an opportunity perhaps to hold some of these people accountable. K: That’s true as long as the victims are protected- D: Yes! K: Because many of them, they don’t- they’ don’t want their accus- they don’t want their stories released in a way that would identify them, so if you can protect them, not identify them, and redact enough that we still know the bad behavior and the bad actors, that’s that would be- that would make sense. D: Yeah, that’s what I wanna see K: Is Ira Silverstein up? Is his seat up? I’m looking it up right now to see. D: Ummm I don’t remember- K: Okay. D: I mean it’s not competitive unless somebody wants to get it late and you you know in -into a primary late. Because of course in that area, Skokie, Lincolnwood- K: Well- D: The near north, I mean- K: I’m sure there are better - I mean I-I would welcome a primary for someone D: Well yeah- K: Who’s accused of this thing- D: Well I know, but you don’t wanna- I-I mean the important thing is that we protect the status quo. See? That’s the whole thing, that’s the sexual harassment sensitivity training or whatever it is they’re trying to move- K: Right. D: The idea is change on the outside to protect continuity on the inside. D-Do you understand how this works I mean you do, I’m speaking rhetorically. That’s how this works in Illinois, change on the outside to buffalo enough of the general population one more cycle to protect continuity on the inside and I mean why why wouldn’t they? K: He is up, by the way. D: Why wouldn’t they? We keep fall- we keep falling for, so I don’t know, Ira Silverstein would welcome a primary challenger. I doubt he’ll get one. Maybe his wife? K: She could! She’s a- she’s a Chicago Alderman, right? D: Yeah. Maybe his wife will primary, wouldn’t that be fun? K: Yeah, it would be. D; Kramer vs. Kramer. Uhh and then also this week on on the umm the policy fund with respect to economic policy, uhhh there was this effort that you wrote about last week and uh the veto session that failed, barely, to um uh prohibit these local right to work zones that were passed in communities like Lincolnshire up in Lake County and also to uh imprison local officials who would vote such a- for such an ordinance. K: I-I’m just shaking my head. I ca- I mean this is just so many bridges too far. I understand the opposition to right to work, I still think even even what we’ve talked about in the state are locally approved zones that local officials should have the right to institute as an economic development tool, a right to work zone. We heard from Toyota and-and uh uh from I bev- I believe Cranes reported pretty substantially that part of the reason we didn’t get the Toyota plant was because we’re not a right to work state! But lawmakers are just going to keep ignoring the the truth and the data and pa- try to pass a bill that not only prohibits right to work zones, but would make it a criminal penalty in order to do so. That’s an insanity. D: That failed and there’s a possibility that uh Marty Moyland who’s the uh Madigan roll call vote representing Des Plaines, Park Ridge, Elk Grove Village who will sponsor that legislation will rerun it sans the criminal penalties and pass it to prohibit without the criminal penalties because basically the only reason he didn’t pass it last week over runner’s veto was you just had too many democrats that were absent K: That’s true, I mean I think he just needs one vote, right? And there were concerns raised about the the criminal penalty portion umm so if you I-I- if he brings it up again this week during veto session Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday that we would have a ban on right to work in Illinois. D: And you’re gonna have some republicans vote for this, some republicans voted for the one with criminal penalties. You know why? Because they’re in open revolt against the governor and it’s every man and woman for themselves. K: Still a bad vote, terrible vote. D: It is a bad vote. K: But I know I-I yeah D: But hh uh for more on this topic, we’re pleased to be joined now by Mailee Smith who is staff attorney and labor expert for the Illinois Policy Institute with which I am affiliated. Miley, thanks for joining us. Appreciate it. Mailee Smith: Hi, thanks for having me this morning. D: So uh uh what is is our read on what is likely to happen in Springfield this week with uh a rerun of the right to work zone prohibition on on the mark? M: That’s exactly what we’re expecting to happen. Um and that’s correct, it missed the veto override but only one vote and there were democrats that were not there that day, so we do expect it to be run again. Now one thing that I would add is that the house sponsor, Representative Moyland has filed an amendment in a trailer bill that would uh take away that criminal penalty. The problem with that is that uh that’s a separate bill. There’s no guarantee that it would be passed, so SB1905, the right to work prohibition could pass this week with that criminal penalty. The trailer bill may not pass, and what we would have is a local right to work prohibition that is going to jail local leaders if they- basically if they disagree with economic policy. K: I mean I just find that to be um really remarkable. Ha-has this been implemented anywhere in the country that you’re aw- that you know of? M: I am not aware that this has been implemented anywhere, this type of criminal penalty. Um in fact, I-I’ve looked at hundreds of hundreds of bills in my legal career, probably thousands, and I’ve never seen a criminal penalty uh just because the lawmakers disagree with an economic policy or a social policy. Um this is definitely a a a unique provision, an um egregious provision and it’s definitely you know undemocratic. D: I think it’s uh modeled after the policy in Havana uh so uh we you know decided with our new partner in peace there, our new trading partner- K: Sure. D: The Castro regime, we decided to take some some of their lead K: Yeah D: When it comes to uh uh labor policy. Um so ju ju on the right to work zones M-M-Mailee, the the basis for those because one of the arguments against them is much like the arguments against um uh different- back in the day- different gun laws by local jurisdiction. Why not either do something uniform at the state level or or do nothing at all? The patchwork of laws around the state make the argument M: Right. Well here’s the thing, there are 27 states with right to work laws, including nearly all of our neighbors, and we know that when businesses are seeking to relocate or expand, they look to see if a state is right to work. You referenced Rockford. We see this first, we saw this first hand last month. Rockford was rejected for the new Toyota/Mazda plant. It was a 4,000 jobs facility and one of the determining factors as reported by Cranes was that Illinois is not a right to work state. The remaining three contenders? They’re right to work states. And so we- having no statewide right to work, we don’t have a way to compete with other locations and what local rights do what local right to work would do is give local leaders the ability to compete. And you know what? If it’s a hodge podge sort of map where some some locations have it and some don’t, I guess what that means is that there are going to be some hodge podge locations of economic prosperity in Illinois and then maybe the rest of the state will follow. K: I mean it’s not different than you know we have TIF districts we have all different when you describe a hodge podge why it-it just it boggles my mind why we keep talking crime in the city of Chicago, lack of economic development, lack of opportunity. If you have- you have areas on the south and west sides of the city of Chicago that haven’t seen economic development- meaningful economic development in generations and yet you still have members of the city council completely bought and paid for by organized labor who would never even consider helping their communities with a right to work zone that would be locally approved. I mean it’s just it-it boggles my mind. I’m also staring at M-Marty Moyland’s uh campaign fund disclosure form at the moment. This is just one- ask me the employee union in the state, just this one labor union has contributed 20- almost $25,000 to him over the years including a $10,000 contribution last year. So who- D: More on the way! K: Well- of course but you don’t have to question whose- who he is representing here. M: That’s right, and that is why the unions in Illinois are such a powerful source and a source to be reckoned with because they are funding- it’s-it’s a vicious circle- where they are uh funding um lawmakers, lawmakers owe them a favor, you never see the economic ball pushed to a place where it’s going to benefit the taxpayers in Illinois. K: I read- I-I had I think I tweeted this out too and so go-go to my Twitter, StateHouseChick to find it because I-I believe there was an article recently that Indiana is growing union jobs faster than Illinois- D: Yes. K: As a right to work state- D: Yeah, true. K: So M: That’s right K: Ju-just all of this resistance is just uh- it doesn’t make any sense. M: And and not just union jobs, they’re growing manufacturing jobs, so during the recession we lost more than 96,000 manufacturing jobs. Um we’ve lost more since then, but our neighboring states with right to work has been gaining jobs. You referenced Indiana. Indiana has gained over 81,000 manufacturing jobs in that same time period that we lost so many. D: She is Mailee Smith, staff attorney and labor expert for the Illinois Policy Institute. Mailee thanks for joining us, appreciate it. M: Thanks for having me!

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