Dan Proft: Good morning, Dan and Amy, so the hits keep coming, Cleveland Browns, last night’s preseason football game.
Amy Jacobson: Yeah, against the Giants.
Dan: Yeah, a group of Cleveland Browns decided that they wanted to help Colin Kaepernick drive down the NFL’s television ratings and so they knelt during the national anthem as well.
Amy: Well it almost looked like they were praying though, they knelt down, they took a knee but in a circle and their arms around each other’s shoulders, I mean it was.
Dan: Yeah, that’s what they were doing, praying.
Amy: No, no, I’m just saying if you wanted to get a visual of what it looked like, it was just strange, and I don’t know why, and I know you and I difference of opinion on this, who cares about the national anthem during a pre-season football game, you only show play the national anthem if it’s a playoff game and you have some superstar singing it.
Dan: The culture cares, and speaking of which, since Castro loving Kaepernick and football players that are following his poisonous example, as in part inspired by his black lives matter girlfriend, a professional agitator.
Amy: How’s that happy couple doing? Okay, are they going to make it Dan?
Dan: This is interesting, Chanel Helm, she’s apparently one of the leaders of Black Lives Matter in Louisville, she’s got 10 requests for white people, hey white people, if you don’t have any descendants, will your property to a black or brown family, preferably one that lives in generational poverty, okay that’s not, it’s like calling for philanthropy, okay. White people if your inheriting property you intend to sell upon acceptance, give it to a black or brown family, if you’re developer, realty owner of a multi-family housing, build a sustainable complex in a black or brown blighted neighbourhood and let black and brown people live in it for free, white people if you can afford to downsize, give up the home you own to a black or brown family, white people if you…
Amy: Give up everything we’ve worked for.
Dan: If any of the people you intend to leave your property too are racist, a-holes change the will and will your property to a black or brown family, re-budget your monthly budget so you can donate to black funds for land purchasing, white people especially white women, get a racist fired, let’s see, commit to two things, fighting white supremacy where and how you can, and funding black and brown people in their work, okay, so those the requests have been duly noted for your consideration and now they’ll resume tearing down Confederate statues, for more on the state of play and the culture beset by identity politics, we’re pleased to be joined by screenwriter, essayist, author of the ‘Great Good Thing’ a secular Jew comes to faith in Christ, he is Andrew Klavan, Andrew thanks for joining us again, appreciate it.
Andrew Klavan: Hey guys, good to be here.
Dan: You wrote a piece recently for pyjamas media, the racist maze, what is the racist maze?
Andrew: The racist maze is, in my mind, the minute you accept the moral grouping of people according to their race, you’ve entered this maze from which there’s simply no way out, people keep trying to reason, well it’s this it’s that, you’re not getting out of there, and I think the left has really been most guilty of this mistake in recent years, that piece you just read from Colin Kaepernick’s girlfriend, the whole identity politics is racism, and my problem is this, once you come to people and say, we deserve something special, because our race is X, there’s nothing to stop the other guy from saying well gee, my race is Y and I want a win, I want to do better, you simply get into a place where might makes right and you’re back where we began, I do not understand the difference in the philosophy of Black Lives Matter and the philosophy of the white supremacists, except the colour of their skin, that’s the only difference, in their philosophy and if your philosophy makes no logical sense, you’re ultimately going to lose that argument, because you’re just dealing with whoever has the greater strength is going to win, I don’t believe in any of this stuff, I really don’t, I really believe that race is a mythology, culture isn’t a mythology, but race is a mythology, people are governed by the ideas in their heads, people are not just bags of chemicals lit up by a lot of electricity, we are minds and we are spirits, and you can follow the good and bad of any community, of any nation, of any society by following the ideas that they follow, good ideas lead to good outcomes, bad ideas lead to bad outcomes, and I’ve been frustrated with the people on my side, on the conservative side, when I say… listen I’m ready to take an extra step in condemning the white supremacists and the neo-Nazis, because there in my house, they call themselves right-wingers, and they’re not and I’m willing to take an extra moment to condemn them, because if they called themselves the Andrew Klavan party I’d condemn them twice, because they don’t represent me, but the logic that they are operating on is the exact same logic as that piece you just read right now, give something to a brown person and the idea is that you can fix the racist injustices of the past, with racist injustices of the present, on the opposite side, and what they don’t realise is if you picture it like a scale, like the scales of justice, all the racism, no matter what colour it is, goes in one end of that scale and all of treating people as if they were spiritual beings, who were governed by ideas, goes in the other side of that scale, and I just think when I see these Antifa people and the Black Lives Matter people fighting with the neo-Nazi people, I feel like I’m watching Iraq and Iran at war, I don’t… I hope they both lose basically.
Amy: Well what do you think, did you watch in Charlottesville, I believe two Fridays ago, when they lit their Tiki torches and we’re walking through the campus saying you will not replace us, wasn’t that unsettling?
Andrew: They make me sick and I think that they are the worst people in the country, but they’re just as bad as, they are just as bad as the guys who went and beat up people in Berkeley, or the people who went and killed police in Dallas, in the names of their philosophy, of course I despise, these right-wing people and I think, by the way, the press is absolutely hysterical in their anti-Trumpism, but I do think that Donald Trump could have handled that situation a lot better, because some of those people support him and some of those people take shelter from him and he needs to point out, all he has to say is, if you want to be in favour of my administration, if you want to make America great again, you got to leave this stuff behind, and if you were doing it yesterday, don’t do it today, don’t do it tomorrow, and follow us into a new great America, that’s not going to have the problems of the past, those are the kinds of speeches, sometimes Donald Trump really frustrates me, because he’s right about the press, they are fake news, they are liars, they are corrupt, they are on the left, but when you hit them, you’ve got to make sure they stay hit and I sometimes think he bobbles the ball by just talking off the top of his head, and saying things he can’t defend later.
Dan: Well while everybody is playing condemnation Olympics, to signal how virtuous they are, I hate white supremacists more than you do, meanwhile as Jordan Peterson points out the University of Toronto psychologist, meanwhile both sides as you were sort of indicating I think, are playing identity politics, which he terms as genocidal, do you agree with that?
Andrew: Yeah, of course it’s, well of course it is, because ultimately if that’s what we’re doing here, if it’s not a pluribus Unum, if we’re not all coming together under the American creed and saying, look I don’t care what colour your skin is, I don’t care what name you call God, if we’re marching to the American creed, we can all march together, when we’re not saying that, then we’re just the same as Europe was for 2,000 years, killing each other, because your name is Francois and my name is Mike, the state of play in a world that is divided by nationality, we’ve had that world, Europe was a beautiful thing at its height, it created some of the greatest culture in the world, but it was also 2,000 years of intermixing warfare and the reason for that was the kind of racial nationalism that made the Franks into the French and the Angles into the English, we rejected that here from the very start, we may have taken our customs from England, great, we may have taken our governance from English law, terrific, but from the very start we said that we were going to be, one people just sheltered under a single creed, the blacks got screwed, they got screwed in that, I get it, but the past can’t be fixed, I wish it could, if I could go back into the past and get rid of slavery I would, I don’t have that power, neither does anyone else, we’re all born past that time and we’ve got to move on, we just have to.
Amy: Well, what do you think of all these statues being taken down? Some legally, some illegally.
Andrew: I’m spiritually against it, I would rather see more statues put up, I would rather see more information put out, I understand the discomfort people might feel, but to be honest with you, those statues were there during the entire presidency of Barack Obama, and no one said a single word, so that means, that says to me, that this is not about statues, this is an attack on the founding and the history of America, on peoples sense of patriotism and belonging, in the end, this is a local question, in the end, I think localities have the absolute right to get together in a Democratic way and decide what they want, but when I see them being removed in the middle of the night and when I see Baltimore, where a black kid is lucky is he can live to 16 without getting shot, wasting their people’s money taking down a statue, or something made of bronze, I just think that this is not what this is about, this is a distraction, it’s a nonsense that is governed by people who really don’t like this country very much, you have a vision of this country and that it’s all been one big mistake, I saw a woman on CNN the other night, saying oh we have to take down statues of George Washington and Thomas Jefferson, they own slaves, well frankly without George Washington and Thomas Jefferson we wouldn’t even have the concept that made the slaves free, I think we have to, understand that people lived in their time and saw what they saw, just like we do now, and by the way, speaking of that, I just want to mention that in the future, a lot of people who support abortion today are going to find their names taken off airports and they’re going to find there statues, people realise what they were doing in their time, the number of babies they put to death for their philosophy, so it’s very hard to see into the future, and I think we should have a little bit more compassion on those people in the past, who couldn’t see today.
Dan: On that important note, Andrew Klavan, screenwriter, essayist, author of the ‘Great Good Thing’ a secular Jew comes to faith in Christ, and particularly Andrew, with what you said about pro-life and pro-choicer, given what we see happening in Iceland in real time for example, I think you’re going to be proven prescient, Andrew Klavan, thank so much for joining us, appreciate it.
Andrew: Thanks great talking to you.
Amy: And he joined us on our turnkey dot pro answer line.